Moved from comment left on polls.
"The following is a snippet from my experience with the DLA Tribunal Service.
About me :
Late 30's gay guy. Diagnosed HIV+ 1991. Awarded DLA with DS1500 1995 which included Highest Rates of Care and Mobility Component. Received Review Nov 2007.
Filled in forms and sent them back. Decision: Lower rate of both. Appealed, went to oral Tribunal with a member of Welfare Rights.
"Before entering the tribunal I was offered a deal"?! - Don't enter Tribunal Room and walk away with lower rate of both DLA or enter and risk mobility component been taken. -
Deal or No Deal- WTF - I thought this process was down to personal medical conditions and needs and not open to bartering?
Well I was grilled for 1 hour - Asked to leave whilst decision was made (which is normally ready in 10 mins): the 3 Tribunal Panel then left the building for dinner and I was told that I would receive decision when they return. So, I my WRO whisked me away and an hour later I received a phone call letting me know they had taken all DLA away. - As far as I'm concerned the decision had already been made. Oh by the way a representative from DLA was also present. My WRO said it was a first for them.
Well that's my snippet for now - I will add more on this in the main forum.
This has left me a nervous wreck."
PDF version Hi John,
To clarify: "The Deal" -
Before entering the Tribunal my WRO and the rep from DLA were asked into the room (without me).
After 10 mins they both came out and my WRO said the following.
They have made it clear that if you go into the tribunal they will be looking at the whole claim. So, i was given a choice.
1. Leave without entering the tribunal and keep my lower levels of both DLA components.
2. Enter the tribunal knowing that they are looking at whole DLA components with risk of losing those already awarded. (These lower rates were downgraded from highest rates of both after my review).
Is this a choice I have to make or is this a pre-configured "deal" in the offering ?
I spoke to my WRO about this today and she could not see my argument?
So, what do you think - was I offered a deal?
My argument is, this was discussed without me present just before my Tribunal. My WRO is there to advise me NOT to be forewarned of possible outcomes without my presence. Hence I was not present whilst they spoke IN PRIVATE about my case before the actual case. So, why the need for the private secret meeting without me.
The outcome of the private meeting was clearly aimed at disuading me from going through the Tribunal.
The options available were the 2 I pointed out above does this not suggest being offered a deal?
IMHO my oral hearing was manipulated throughout and my mental state of mind was coerced. If I had to go through the process again I would have chosen to have a written tribunal. At least then the lawyer (not the doctor) would not have had chance to diagnose me as "not being agoraphobic" as I had a fear of people not outside spaces. Yeah, he came out with that after bombarding me with questions and trying to trip me up with each answer. In the end you do just give in as your mind would explode otherwise. I am an intelligent guy with mental heath problems however, my intelect took over my tribunal. Hence I came accross as ok without need. In retrospect I should have allowed the tears to flow and sat dumb throughout. "But that would have been detrimental to me, myself and my PRIDE!" - Dont let the *&^%$%^& get you down.
A few weeks after the tribunal my WRO read through the written reason for the decision and advised me that they had not made an error in the law. My only way forwards would be to contact the "Law Centre". I will update you on this. Oh and I can apparently make another claim in the meantime "If I want to". This makes me laugh as as after reading through the advice on this site I know my WRO should have pointed this out WAY before now. Yeah Im disgruntled - whos working for who here !?
I look forward to your comments. Also a big thank you to John whom through this website has given me a voice and the strength to carry on.
I wish you all well and hope my evolving experience is somehow a help to others.
X Anon - Or from now on on this forum "Mr G"
p.s. I have an appointment with the Law Centre this week and will update you on the outcome.
We have always advised those who may wish to go through any form of appeal the following:
- An oral appeal seems to be the better way to go. Questions that the examiners have can be dealt with as they "crop up". A written appeal relies on what has been presented in writing in evidence and if something is missing this can protract the matter and even result in an adverse decision being made.
- there is ALWAYS a RISK with ANY appeal. This is because the appeal looks at the entire claim. However an appeal allows the claimant to submit further evidence or further detail on points which the decision maker has not necessarily given due importance. You were not offered a deal.
Your Welfare Rights Officer should have made it very clear in your first meeting with them about any appeal what the risks were. I am not a Welfare Rights Officer yet we know this ???? When asked to give advice on whether someone should make an appeal we don't encourage people either way. I certainly always make them fully aware of the risks so they can make an informed decision.
In terms of the "private meeting" it depends on who was present. If it was just your WRO & the DWP DLA person this could have been to establish the position of the DWP prior to a hearing. That is whether the DWP had changed their position and wanted to change the award granted to you. If any member of the tribunal panel was present at this meeting this brings with it issues of impartiality. As any conversation with the tribunal present could lead to a determination being reached prior to an examination of the facts as presented and your oral evidence.
So looking at your claim. Did the DWP get medical evidence (reports) from all the medics who see you? Of particular interest is any report on your mental health. We have on file an admission by the DWP that they cannot reach a full picture of your HIV and how if effects you without full supporting medical evidence.
Do you have copies of all the correspondence. It may be prudent to write to the DWP & the tribunal service under the auspices of the Data Protection Act asking for all the information they hold on you including the detail of the "private meeting".
As for "errors in law". One for the lawyers I am afraid. Without knowing the exact details it is difficult to make a determination. However the "devil is always in the detail" and you need to look at not just the private meeting but your whole claim and every stage of the process you have been subject to and if the proper due process has been followed.
Did you submit any further evidence prior to or for the tribunal panel to consider?
The question I would ask is why were you given any award in the first place? The DWP clearly determined you met certain criteria and what was it that the tribunal found to be flawed in this earlier decision?
On the mental health side of things and certainly a key issue at the present, your HIV is a "fluctuating condition" which means some days will be better than others and this needs to figure in any submission made.
Has your WRO advised you further appeal to the Independent Case Examiner?
Hi John, thanks for the in depth honest reply.
This is a quick answer to what I think is a fundamental point you picked up on.
I will post the further details you mentioned out over the next few days.
I have a meeting with someone from the Law Centre tomorrow and will certainly flag your folowing comment.
[Quote]
If any member of the tribunal panel was present at this meeting this
brings with it issues of impartiality. As any conversation with the
tribunal present could lead to a determination being reached prior to
an examination of the facts as presented and your oral evidence.
[End Quote]
Yes all 3 tribunal members were present at the "Private Meeting"
This gives me some hope as I thought something was amiss. Shame my WRO did not pick up on this.
Would this give me a way into challenging this tribunal in any way?
I will let you know how I get on and thank you again for your time and candid response
"Much Appreciated"
Mr G - (Watch this space) <o> <o>
There is a new Tribunal structure that has come into effect today - click here for details.
I will be very interested on the legal advice you will be given.
I moved your comment into the Forums I hope you don't mind.
Sorry to hear this but the working and behaviour of the DWP doesn't surprise me anymore.
Who offered you the deal? If it was your Welfare Right Officer he may have just being making you aware of the risks. However it it was a member or representative of the Tribunal or DWP than this is a serious breach and should be dealt with through the Independent Case Examiner.
I would draw your attention to this tale - click here. That may demonstrate the lengths you have to go to in certain cases.
John.